Lindsay Dyer Ancora and Lori Knoper presented at NBAA’s Small Operator Symposium at the NBAA Conference in Las Vegas.
The Small Operator Symposium is a half-day event focused on small flight department management and operations. Participants will have the opportunity to engage with subject-matter experts in sessions that offer tips on time management and decision making, scheduling tools, NextGen avionics, and data collection and data sharing practices. In addition, there will be a roundtable-style discussion with an owner-pilot and updates from NBAA experts on airspace changes and regulatory hot-topics. Sessions will be structured to include ample time for open town-hall style Q&A and interaction with the audience.
Scheduling Software as a Tool for Efficient Operations
Presenters: Lindsay Dyer, CAM, L/D Aviation Services; Lori Knoper, L/D Aviation Services
One tool for department managers to increase efficiency is to utilize scheduling software, but where do you start? This session will focus on what to look for in a software solution, cost vs. benefits, security vs. simplicity, and real-world examples ranging from spreadsheet-based to software and even consulting as options to consider.
Transcript of the Session
Lou Sorrentino: Thank you for using this valuable time in Las Vegas on a Monday, when it’s such a nice day outside and you could be out doing all kinds of remarkable things, but we’re glad you’re here. We’re glad you’re interested in furthering your understanding of the strategies, to improve small operator operations and make it more efficient and so forth, so that’s all great. What I’d like to do now is turn it over to Lindsay Dyer and Lori Knoper of L/D Aviation Services to discuss scheduling software and tools for efficient operations. Please welcome Lindsay and Lori.
Lindsay Dyer: Thank you, here we go.
Lori Knoper: Perfect. We are not public speakers, paid public speakers, so we’re going to do our best here. We have notes.
Lindsay Dyer: Yes, we do. We sure do.
Lori Knoper: We are here to demystify the scheduling software. It can be very overwhelming, and we want to try to kind of peel the layers back. Give you guys each some ideas and techniques, that you can go to the software companies and explain to them what you need by prioritizing. We’re going to help you kind of figure out exactly what you may or may not need.
I’m going to introduce Lindsay Dyer. She is the president and founder of LD Aviation, which we are scheduling and dispatching services for private aircraft. We are experts in the scheduling, anything for your private aircraft, we really know. We’ve been in the business for a long time, and we work with a lot of different companies. We are unbiased. We don’t get paid by any of them, but we feel like we know quite a bit about the scheduling side of the industry.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup, and this is Lori Knoper, and she’s the director of operations for L/D Aviation. She handles a large majority of the day-to-day interactions between the clients and our team. Our team in general, we work with multiple scheduling systems on a daily basis. We’re not particular to one. Of course, each department has different needs, and so different scheduling softwares will work better for them.
Okay, so couple of things we’re going to go over. Why do you need software in the beginning? Why should you pay for that? We’re going to talk about a couple of the costs versus some of the benefits. We’re going to talk about how to choose the right one for your department. We’re going to talk about some of the options that are out there.
When flight departments come to us, oftentimes they say, “I need every single thing that’s out there on the market. I need the software to do every single thing.” I guarantee you, you don’t need the software to do every single thing. You have to figure out exactly what your flight department is doing and needs, and then purchase the software based on those needs. Don’t over-purchase, but don’t under-purchase either.
Lori Knoper: I think I’m going to tag onto what was mentioned in the last presentation as well is, data collection and efficiency. We really feel like that is a really primary focus on scheduling software.
Lindsay Dyer: It is.
Lori Knoper: Is security important and [inaudible 00:03:26] a two authored…
Lindsay Dyer: Two factor [inaudible 00:03:31].
Lori Knoper: Yup.
Lindsay Dyer: Two phase.
Lori Knoper: [inaudible 00:03:32] each other here. Or do you Citrix? There’s different security things and levels that you guys need or may not need. Who is sitting next to you may need something way different than what you need, simplicity, or do you need something really complex? It just matters exactly what your flight department needs.
There are at least 20 out on the floor, and we have a really good guide at the end that we’re going to hand out for an exchange of a business card. To help you to understand how to get out on the floor, because we have not found a really easy way in the NBAA guide. There’s not an easy way to narrow down the scheduling software system.
We did a lot of our research and came up with a really good guide to help you guys be able to tackle it on the floor this week, and make the most for your time out on the floor. Then we’re going to talk about some real world examples.
I’m not sure if you guys have listened to the NBAA podcast. They have a Flight Plan Podcast and they had one in July, it was on challenges and rewards of small flight departments. We really found it interesting because they said 80% of the flight departments, and I think those statistics were mentioned earlier too, have at least two aircraft or less. A lot of the software companies out in the floor are legacy software companies, who have been around for a long time and are geared towards a lot of larger flight departments. We have narrowed that down to understand exactly what it is that you can look for.
The biggest challenge in small flight departments they said was resources, which we know is a big key. Then how to find good information is another thing. We’ve done some extensive background on this [inaudible 00:05:14] and understand that there’s a huge… You want to have a big ROI in your return to make sure that you can sell it up to your upper management and exactly what your flight department needs are.
Today we’re going to talk about the benefits of the software, and how to upsell it to make sure that you’re getting exactly what you want. Like Lindsay said, you don’t want to over or under purchase. You want to make sure you’re getting exactly what you need. You don’t want to buy something too big and then only use a quarter of the program, which we have seen happen many, many times.
Lindsay Dyer: Right, yup. We are basing our presentation on a couple of assumptions here. One is, like Lori said before, we are not paid by any of the software systems. We don’t get kickbacks. We don’t work for any of them, so this is just unbiased day to day use of the software systems. The other thing is, we’re expecting you to be part or we believe you’re part of a one to two aircraft operation. That you do not have a scheduler or a dispatcher on staff. Although you may have an admin person helping you, but this person does not have a lot of aviation or maybe zero aviation background.
Lori Knoper: Again, just for easy calculation, we’re going to assume you make $100 an hour. If the system costs $5,000 a year, you have to work at least 50 hours, have the system work for you, 50 hours and that would be about 4.2 hours per month. Easy, that’s easy. That’s a no brainer to justify the cost of a scheduling.
Again, we go back to data collection, efficiency. There’s a lot of things that we’re going to kind of dig into here as we talk more about this.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, I really think that you’re going to be able to easily get your money back by purchasing a software system. Another one of our assumptions is, we do not believe that Excel and Outlook is an okay way to go for your scheduling system. Like I see, we see a lot of it and you can make it work, but it is not the most efficient way for doing it.
Lori Knoper: Big room for error.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, huge room for error on that.
Lori Knoper: A lot of duplicate effort as well when you do an Excel or Outlook or any of that.
Lindsay Dyer: For sure. Yup. Sorry go ahead.
Lori Knoper: We have a polling question. If you guys have not registered for the app, you have to sign in to the app now and then you can [inaudible 00:07:33] here. We want to know, how many people have a scheduling software and not including Outlook or Excel? We want to know something that is geared towards aviation. If you guys can just do, raise your hands.
Lindsay Dyer: We have…
Lori Knoper: Quite a few. Okay, how many are looking for this during this week, are you looking to purchase software?
Lindsay Dyer: Okay, great, so there are some people who are actually out there looking. Perfect. All right, oh wonderful. Okay.
Lori Knoper: Okay, good, good, all right.
Lindsay Dyer: That’s very interesting. Okay, cool. Has anybody read Tim Ferriss’s book, The Four Hour Work Week, anybody? Paula has, anybody else? Nobody else has read that?
Lori Knoper: Shannon?
Lindsay Dyer: Shannon has. Everybody wants four hours of work week, right? Read the book, it’s a really cool book. Now I haven’t actually figured out how to work only four hours a week. As soon as I do, I’ll let you know. However, I did find some really cool things out of that book, and one is eliminating unnecessary tasks. All of us are going to have some type of an unnecessary tasks in what we do on a daily basis.
We just do it because we’ve been doing it that way every time, but we need to figure out, do we really need to do that task?
Lori Knoper: There’s a checklist, but sorry to jump in here.
Lindsay Dyer: Oh yeah.
Lori Knoper: We gave you a checklist on your sheet, and we really feel like that’s a really helpful way for you guys to prioritize. You can take the checklist if you’re looking at software, and help eliminate, delegate, automate and figure out exactly what software company is going to be best for your flight department. We just kind of narrowed it down by things that we felt were really critical, important to flight departments. Maybe yours doesn’t need that particular line item. We felt like we tried to make a really broad cover sheet there to cover all the aspects.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, so anything on that sheet that you can eliminate, put an E by it. The next one is leveraging technology to automate tasks. There’s a ton of technology out there. New stuff is coming on the market all the time. Leverage those things so that you don’t have to spend time doing data entry by hand. The last thing is delegating work. I understand that all of you guys can probably schedule and grab fuel and pick out your airports really well. If you delegated some of those tasks to somebody who may do that on a daily basis, it would free up time for you guys to work on, perhaps the SMS program, which I didn’t see a lot of people raising their hands as having that done. You could be working on your FOM, you could be working on an ERP, stuff, that’s really important. Maybe you as director of aviation, maybe the only person who can do that for your flight department. Delegate some of these scheduling tasks out to somebody else.
We’re going to try and help you separate all these different tasks into eliminate, automate or delegate. Yeah, you can use your checklist. I think we have another polling question. Here, let me move it. Oh no, sorry. We got that. We’re going straight actually into eliminate, sorry.
Okay, so paper flight logs, let’s just eliminate these paper flight logs right off the bat. That’s a big thing. A lot of people are still using the paper flight logs. Let’s get it into a scheduling system, make it fast, make it efficient. Airport selection, you can set up parameters in your scheduling software, where it will only allow you to select airports that are usable for your aircraft. No more sifting through, maybe 3,000 foot runways that might not work for your aircraft.
Whiteboard, does anybody have a whiteboard still? Please say no, but if you do, okay, it’s time to move away from the whiteboard. One, it’s just not efficient data collection. You need to be able to allow more people access to your schedule, more people access to what maintenance needs to be done. Put it into a scheduling software, and I think everybody will, your whole department will appreciate it.
Paper itineraries, save the trees. Let’s not print out paperwork that we don’t need to. On top of it, as soon as you print out those itineraries, something [inaudible 00:11:55] it’s not even going to be correct anymore, so then you’ve got to print it again. Reporting, if you use a scheduling software, you should be able to eliminate the majority of your hand entered data entry.
Fuel pricing, how many of you guys have sent five different emails to five different fuel vendors, trying to get a quote for a location that you’re going to, only to have to wait for those quotes to come back? You check them out, you figure out who’s the cheapest. Now you have to send an email again to request the release. Then you have to wait for that release to come back. I don’t know if you know, but many scheduling softwares have that built right into it, and it will take one minute. It’s way more efficient.
Also, anybody left an FBO without the invoice? Had to call back and figure out, “Hey man, where is that, my invoice and sorry accounting is not in right now.” You’re like, “Well I really would like to do my expense report and my P cards.” You can’t do it because somebody is not in. Some of these scheduling softwares have an auto button, where they will automatically go out and send an email to the accounting department and say, “Can you send me my email?” Or I’m sorry, “Send me my invoice?” Within 48 hours you just have that back into your email account.
Lori Knoper: It’s never going to happen on the first call, you’re going to make three calls.
Lindsay Dyer: Right, it’s going to be three calls, definitely. Hopefully you found something on that list that you can eliminate.
Lori Knoper: Okay, we have another polling question. If you have your app ready, we are wondering, what’s the most important feature in a scheduling software? Is it price? Is it security? If you guys could answer that, is it tracking duty times? Is it…
Lindsay Dyer: Mobility? Yeah. Mobile access.
Lori Knoper: Mobile access. Is it integration? There’s a lot of integration now, companies that work well with a lot of software. Is it price? You guys raise your hand. Is price a big deal? Security?
Lindsay Dyer: No? Security, that should be a big deal, that should be a big deal. This is a lot of data.
Lori Knoper: Sending stuff Outlook and Gmail or Excel. I don’t want my passport numbers sent through an Excel spreadsheet, that’s for sure.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup. Agreed. Okay. Well we’re not getting too many people respond to that one. Okay. All right, we’ll just switch on then to the automate. Reporting, anybody have to send in reports to accounting, maybe send in, yeah, I’m guessing that happens to everybody. Oftentimes scheduling software can automatically report on this. You can put it for the first of the month, you can put it for the fifth a month, and it will send out these reports, auto-generated over to accounting. It’ll send it to maintenance. It’ll send it to your FPO. If you want pullout time set up, you can have an automatic report saying, showing every time you’re departing. This automates a lot of hassle.
No more having to generate a PDF, name it, attach it to a document, email it back out to the right people. It’s done automatically, super great automation. Passenger profiles, if you have a passenger that has an allergy or some type of a preference, all this stuff goes right into this scheduling software. Then every time you schedule that person, it’s going to pop up a little window. It says, “Hey, this person is allergic to nuts.” If you do this on an Excel spreadsheet and you miss that and you put nuts on the airplane, that can be a big deal. That’s going to be a huge issue.
Basically, any notification, anything that has an expiration date on it, your scheduling software should be able to track and give you a warning. Sometimes it’s hard to keep up with all of your… When are the medicals due? When is insurance due? When is your visa waiver program due? All of that can be tracked automatically in your scheduling software.
Oh, here’s one of my favorite ones. The [inaudible 00:16:09] times, so your data link provider most oftentimes can send you [inaudible 00:16:15] times including your fuel right into the scheduling software. You can look at it and you’re like, “Oh yeah, that looks correct.” You hit verify and it goes off into your maintenance tracking program like a camper or a CMP. If you can automate that whole process, it removes the possibility of mistakes. I’m going to guess every once in a while you guys have a math mistake when you’re doing it by hand. I know I’ve gone back through and fixed multiple, just mistakes, math mistakes. Not that pilots usually make mistakes, just every once in a while.
Some of the integrations, we’ve got FuelerLinx integration that helps with your fuel. You’ve got FlightBridge integration that helps with notification on FPOs and itineraries. If you don’t want to have to send your itinerary via email over to your passenger, there’s a way to set it up so that your passenger can have access to those itineraries on their own. They can print it whenever they want, makes it so…
Lori Knoper: Or not print it.
Lindsay Dyer: Or not print it.
Lori Knoper: Yeah, they can keep it on their mobile. Yup.
Lindsay Dyer: Sure, then they don’t have to be asking you to do it. How many of you guys are getting those emails on the weekends or even in the evenings, and you’re like, “I would really like to have today off, and spend time with my family,”? You can’t because you’re getting somebody who’s emailing you because they didn’t do it during regular work hours.
Automatic import of fuel prices now not using the CSV reports too often. Now they’re doing it via API, which is a login, a username, password. It’s all your fuel pricing for your departments at your fingertips really. One last thing you can automate is, oftentimes in the software systems, you can email the FPOs directly from there, which eliminates the phone calls. You have an actual written tracking that you’ve notified them that they’re coming. Hopefully some of you guys found something you can automate off that list as well.
Lori Knoper: Now we’re going to talk about delegate, and we really would love it if you guys would either pull in the answer. If you could delegate one task, what would it be? Would it be flight planning? Would it be reporting SFL? Would it be interfacing with your EA in your crew or fuel? I mean one stop shop for fuel, that’s awesome when you have that option. Delegation is all part of it. You can’t be a Jack of all trades.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup. Anybody have anything that they would like to, what would they like to delegate? Any project that they don’t like doing on a daily basis? Calendar, okay, just the calendar in general. Notifying your crew members, notifying who’s going to be flying. Yup. Scheduling software can do that automatically with a push of a button.
Lori Knoper: Anybody else have anything to offer, delegate?
Speaker 4: Right over there.
Lindsay Dyer: Expenses.
Lori Knoper: Expenses.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, expense reporting.
Lori Knoper: Receipt matching, yes.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup. There are software systems out there that you can just take a picture with your iPad, and that expense goes right up into that trip. Now there’s no more having to attach it to something, attach it to, I don’t know.
Lori Knoper: It’s reconciled, the discrepancies are figured out right at that time and you move on.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup. You can also track your fuel pricing that way. Anyway, we could go on and on. All right, so delegate. Let’s see. Let’s talk about some of the delegate things we can delegate. One, this is something we kind of talked about earlier today. You can’t be a Jack of all trades or you shouldn’t be. It’s not really realistic and it’s not very safe. You guys really should be, if you’re flying the airplane, you really need to focus on flying the airplane and the pieces that go along with that. If you are maintenance, you really need to focus on maintenance.
There are some software systems that have an actual request system, so I’m not sure how everybody does their request. Oftentimes they come in via email, but there are some scheduling softwares out there that there’s a website that the EAs will go in and say, “I want to go here and here at this time.” Then it comes straight into your scheduling software and then automatically uploads in there. There’s no more data entry or way less data entry.
How about training slots? Everybody’s got to do training. You can track when those slots are due or when you actually have to go with your scheduling software. Then you could delegate that project to somebody else. That doesn’t even have to be an aviation person. You just have to explain to them when you want to go and what the contact person’s name and number is, and then let them go forward with it.
Oh, here’s the big one. We talked about this earlier today as well, the day of trip transportation onsite notifications. I think Dave spoke about it, but I’m sure we’ve all had that unfortunate sinking feeling that you arrive to your airport and there’s no rental car, there’s no limo, there’s no transportation. You could have planned that entire trip so perfectly. When you get there and your transportation for your passenger is not there, that passenger just thinks you’ve messed up the whole thing. If you have somebody who’s helping you with that on the ground, if you can delegate that project, have them call, make sure that transportation is on the ground before you arrive. It can make, I mean it can just increase passenger satisfaction by tenfold really.
Active flight following. Yeah, of course you can’t do that if you’re flying it, but it is important. Receipt matching, which we’ve talked about earlier today as well. Also, if you’re getting a little bit worried about, you’re like, “Okay, well how am I going to put all of the data that I have from previous years into this scheduling software? It’s just a giant pain and I don’t want to do it,” so delegate that out to somebody else. There’s people who know these scheduling softwares really well. You can delegate to them this setup process, and then they can hand it over to you and you can just manage the actual trips once they start coming in.
Then I guess the final and biggest thing you could do is, you can delegate the entire dispatch function. You can delegate it, you can hire a scheduler or a dispatcher to do that, whether it’s full-time or part-time. You can hire a company like LDA that does that on a daily basis. There are ways out there to delegate the entire scheduling and dispatch system, which could probably take a whole lot off of your plate and allow you to do other things. Like I said, like the SMS or ERP.
Lori Knoper: FLM or, yup. Again, we say we aren’t paid, we aren’t compensated for this. We are just giving you an unbiased. Like David I think said earlier, it’s overwhelming and it’s almost like a secret society, the scheduling software. It’s really tough to get the information. We tried a couple different approaches on how we were going to present this today, and we had quite a bit of resistance on that. Nobody wants to be compared on the screen, and that was kind of our initial idea. We wanted to be able to give all buckets of what everybody does, but we couldn’t get any reciprocation back on that.
Lindsay Dyer: Couldn’t get a lot of answers for that.
Lori Knoper: We just want to make it really clear, we’re very passionate about aviation, it’s obvious, and software scheduling is our niche. We know, we’ve been in the industry a long time and we know it inside and out. We have come up with a sheet and we are more than happy to exchange that for a business card at the end. There’s about 25 of them. Not all of them are here. There’s a couple of European ones that are not here, but we put their booth number on here and their email contact information, just to give it an easy stop shop for you guys to go. You can take the sheet that we laid out, and you can bring that and prioritize exactly what you’re looking for. They will be more than happy to peel back the onion and figure out exactly what you need.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, that was our kind of intent, is you guys can bring this sheet, fill it out, bring it over there to all of them. Go visit them all and see which one is actually going to fit the needs of your department. Does anybody have any questions about…
Speaker 5: I do, hi.
Lindsay Dyer: Yup.
Speaker 5: We’ve looked at software a couple of years ago, and I just wanted electronic flight log that could go to the office.
Lindsay Dyer: Okay.
Speaker 5: We paid money to two of them and we actually got to get our money back because they couldn’t do it. It was the most frustrating, so we still do a paper flight log. We can’t get any of these people to just do a simple task of entering the data and it goes to where we want it to go. Have you run across anybody… I mean those are the little things as a small flight department that you have a unique, and then we go and talk to these companies that service big. They go, “Well, we have this big thing,” and we’re like, “No, I just want a small thing,” and nobody does it.
Lindsay Dyer: You’re right, so that would be kind of overbuying. You don’t want to overbuy something, right?
Speaker 5: Right, exactly.
Lindsay Dyer: You want to just buy that one piece. I guess in that section, I would say, how much do you want to spend on it? You need to figure out how much you want to spend on that electronic flight bag. Can you go out there and find something that does have it? Then get a whole bunch of other things as well, because you’re right, nobody or I don’t think anybody just has the electronic flight bag. You could gain a whole bunch more capability for the same price if you were able to go out there and get that flight log. Pay the same amount of money and then use the scheduling piece of it too.
Speaker 5: Sure, okay. Thanks.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, I think you could do both.
Lori Knoper: Or I think they’re even interested in, Robin from PFM is sitting in here too. I think they’re interested in capturing that knowledge. They’re willing to voice your [inaudible 00:26:20] what you’re looking for. Maybe that’s something they can put on the radar for down the road.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Just to kind of tag onto what you said, I was looking for that exact same thing. Something for flight logging and expense reporting, ideally combined. I spent months reaching out to tons of people and no one does just that. We ended up switching our whole software scheduling program to something that provides more, like you just said that we really didn’t know what we were missing until we started looking around.
Lindsay Dyer: Well, and now are you able to use the more functionality? Like are you putting it to good use?
Speaker 6: We’re literally in the process of switching our training data isn’t until the beginning of last year.
Lori Knoper: Okay, awesome.
Speaker 6: I mean, just from seeing the efficiencies that we’ll be able to gain from switching software. I mean, I can already see like our schedule. We’re a little bit larger of an operator. We have four aircraft, primarily 135 and we have a dedicated aircraft dispatcher.
The switch is going to free her up substantially and just create efficiencies in the company. The big thing is, it’s sales and operations side that it’s going to be huge for us.
Lindsay Dyer: Sure. That’s a big, with the quoting side in that as well.
Lori Knoper: Efficiency, yeah that’s important.
Speaker 5: Yeah, good flight, yeah.
Lindsay Dyer: I mean, I think that you can find all price levels of software systems. I really believe that even at the cheapest one at $5,000 a year, you’re going to be able to use that software system and gain that money back. You’re going to be able to gain it in time.
Speaker 7: One thing that we’re seeing from a lot of charter companies and other things, is they’re running around with maybe 10 pilots two years ago. Now they have eight or seven or some number. I know Dave you’d mentioned like the clay pigeons and things like that. If you can give the clay pigeons to somebody else, the time management piece I think really ties into this really, really well.
That’s something that I’m seeing and maybe you guys have some suggestions on people who, where the pilots used to do everything, how can you manage what used to be a 10 pilot operation with seven pilots? That might be something you’ve seen as well.
Lindsay Dyer: Yeah, that’s a really great thing, because that does happen often right now. If you could shove some of this work, like the scheduling work or the fuel negotiating work off to somebody else. The happier your pilots are, the longer they’re going to stay. We’ve got a lot of turnover in the industry right now, and it’s because everybody’s being called, especially small flight departments, they’re being called on the weekends. They’re being called in the evenings and you guys want some time off, so delegate some of that.
Lori Knoper: Employees are your biggest asset. Definitely.
Lindsay Dyer: Are we good on time?
Lou Sorrentino: Yeah.
Lindsay Dyer: Okay.
Lou Sorrentino: Any last questions? Okay, Lori, Lindsay, thank you very, very much. You’re wonderful. Thank you. Round of applause, so [inaudible 00:29:21]. Very good. Thanks for participating. Thank you very much. Okay, so there is this one question that I do want to ask about the scheduling software. We went from a whiteboard, which some of us fondly remember, little whiteboard to Excel, to software systems. Have you seen any kind of a case study or an example of how an organization has come from the whiteboard? How they’ve, what’s that song? Well, I forget, how they’ve gone from the whiteboard to Excel to now a software. What’s the pathway and how they might read that, is that outlined somewhere? Do you have a case study?
Lindsay Dyer: [inaudible 00:30:02] I mean I’ve gone through it, I’ve been in flight departments. I’ve helped them get off of the whiteboard and go onto a scheduling software system. My philosophy is that, first of all, you’re not going to get everybody on board right away. Some people are going to still want that whiteboard, but if you can just rip off that bandaid and say, “This is what we’re doing,” people will learn. These software systems, they’re easy to learn. They’re easy to use. Rip off the bandaid, just get rid of the whiteboards okay.
Speaker 4: Thank you Lindsay, thank you very much. Okay.